I had that very impression myself, until I saw a bullfight in person. I then thought differently.

I’m sure further words I could put together wouldn’t (and probably shouldn’t - you should force yourself through seeing the first bull’s entire performance once, and then decide for yourself) change your mind, there are a few points to consider beyond Erik’s already good answers:

- The bull is never teased or treated with disrespect, ever. If anything, he is revered more than most of the homo sapiens present.

- It isn’t like continually overpowering and/or physically chastising type of stuff is going on; like when you potty train a dog, or when people do abuse animals.

- The bull is stabbed from the top a few times for the purpose of slowing/stopping the bull’s ability to raise his head. This seems to be the sole advantage granted to the human matador in the arena with him. This custom goes back much longer than the United States has been in existence, so I’ll give it some wiggle room until I know more - my opinion…

- When the bull is stabbed, it is a more humane method of death than much of the animal deaths that happen during big game sport hunting seasons.

I don’t mean to start a debate on killing things, but maybe you started it Paul - I’m just sending my 2 pennies up and over Canada…. to you guys (*way* over Canada to you Erik).

‘Esteban

I think Spaniards party (drink and laugh in groups) more than Americans. Agree? If so, do Spaniards party hard, or do Americans party weak?

I think that Spain, and Europe in general, really, has much more of a custom of people going out to bars with friends. Almost no one drinks alcohol at home, and you will never be invited over to someone’s house for a few drinks. Although, if you are invited over for something else, you will be offered something.

This cultural difference is no doubt due to many factors, but one major one is the geographical layout of where the bars and the houses are. If you wanted to invite some friends out to Bar A, Bar B, and then Bar C, in the US, you’d all have to drive to A from your individual houses/jobs, then you’d all have to drive, probably in your individual cars, to Bar B, and again to Bar C. That just doesn’t work. I could hit a nine iron over three bars from the roof of my building.

Spanish children from the age of 15 spend time out in the streets from midnight to 4am in little sexually homogeneous groups¹ of four or five on Saturdays. They can’t officially order alcohol from bars (although it’s very rare to see anyone get carded), but they can enter them and dance. This is what they do for fun. I suspect that most teenagers only see the interior of their friends’ houses when they stop by to pick them up on their way out.

Imagine if, in Morganton, there were 7 bars between the old post office and the old courthouse that were open from 10pm to 4am at night with pop music blaring and they let minors enter, and 18-year-olds buy alcohol. Then imagine if 60% of the town’s population lived as close as Morehead Street, but that there were buses every hour that went down Bethel Road headed towards a bus station that was where the rec center is. That place would be packed with people of all ages!²

That’s what’s available in Spain, and that’s what people do. It’s not that the Spanish are different people than Americans, it’s just that, over time, for many reasons (many of them geographical), a bar culture has developed. People go for the companionship and the music; the alcohol is just lubricant.

What I witnessed in Pamplona was just like a normal Saturday night in any city in Spain, only magnified a little bit with the euphoria of a festival with bands and thousands of people.

¹These groups are called cuadrillas, the same word for the group of apprentice bullfighters that help the main bullfighter in the ring.

²Especially if it was culturally accepted and not declared to be the work of The Devil in the churches the next morning.

First, why do you Spaniards party so hard?

Hmm… Why not?

Second, what is your justification for supporting what some call cruelty to animals?

Well, you have to look at it like this. These bulls are especially raised for this singular purpose. If bullfighting was banned, they would cease to exist. Bull husbandry a huge industry in Spain. They live great lives. It’s really only their last 15 or 20 minutes of life that are stressful. The particular breed that they are isn’t good for milk or meat. They are allowed to roam freely in their pasture and are fed better food than the “let’s make them fat” stuff that they feed the meat-destined creatures. The entire industry gives jobs to hundreds of people and puts food on their table.

Is stabbing a sword all the way to the hilt into an animal and waiting until it dies of internal bleeding after taunting it for 15 minutes cruel? Sure it is. But those bulls owe their very existence to the tradition.

It’s like chickens and other cows are bred for the sole purpose of slaughter. If we all stopped consuming them and became vegans, those animals would cease to exist. You can choose to make use of their death, and by doing so, give them life, or not breed them at all.

Personally, I would rather have a horribly gruesome death than not exist at all.

Until you’ve seen a bullfight in person, I agree, it all looks pretty black-and-white. But after experiencing the atmosphere and emotion of a good bullfight, it all turns gray.